But What If DeRo Isn't DeRo? Gauging Interest In The Anti-DeRo Movement
by Martin Shatzer on Jan 31, 2012 1:00 PM EST
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As fans of D.C. United, we should all be worried.
Worried that our team won’t have one of the top scoring offenses in the league, like it was for stretches of the 2011 season. Worried that United will fall short of the playoffs once again. Worried because so much of our hope for 2012 rests on the shoulders of one man. And that man is 33 years old. And that man has a history of being disgruntled when he’s unhappy with his contract situation.
Dwayne De Rosario had the best year of his career in 2011. He also had the best year of any player in MLS, rightfully earning a league MVP award for his prolific production of 16 goals and 12 assists. If you’ve been keeping up with the comments in our De Rosario primer from Sunday, then you already know what I’m going to say. His production is bound to drop off at some point. Just like it did for Jaime Moreno. Hard as it may be to say anything negative about the Godfather Of Goals, he probably hung around one year too long, in hindsight. United won’t want that to happen with their new star attacker. De Rosario hasn’t shown any signs of slowing down yet, but we have to acknowledge that it’s physiologically likely that he eventually will. It might not be this year. It might not even be next year. But it’s going to happen. And without any other consistent goal scorers on United’s roster, this will be a problem for us.
De Rosario is under contract with MLS for the 2012 season. If nothing changes, he’ll be out of contract at year’s end. Will the player grow more and more unhappy throughout the year if his contract remains unsettled? Will his unhappiness be reflected in his play on the field? Or in his leadership in the locker room?
I’m inclined to be the first to start the anti-DeRo movement in D.C. Mostly just because I think it might be a movement that the majority of United fans want to be a part of at some point within the next 18 months. And I’m somewhat of a pioneer.
The anti-DeRo movement is something that Toronto FC fans are intimately familiar with. He was a polarizing figure there late in 2010 and early in 2011, publicly expressing his dissatisfaction with his contract, and becoming a distraction to the team off the field. After the 2010 season, he accepted a trial with Celtic in Scotland apparently without telling his bosses at TFC. That’s uncouth in any profession. When De Rosario was traded to the New York Red Bulls, TFC fans didn’t cry. They were glad to see the drama finally put in the rear. They were happy to move on without him.
In the linked Waking The Red story above, Duncan Fletcher suggests that both TFC and the Canadian National Team actually perform better without De Rosario. Turns out he may have been right, at least by one measure. Toronto scored more goals in 2011 than they did in 2010. That’s not what’s the most important here though. The bigger concern for me is that De Rosario hasn’t made the MLS playoffs since 2008. It’s nice that he’s won four MLS Cups, but that seems like a lifetime ago. How long should he still be considered "a winner?"
De Rosario continues to express his frustration with his contract. "I’m not really too pleased that I’m in this position right now," he told Craig Stouffer of the Washington Examiner earlier this month. We’re certainly hoping that he won’t be a distraction at all this season. United has been clear in stating that the team wants De Rosario to be here for the long-term, but is also deferring to the league when addressing the lack of progress in contract negotiations. Will we have to endure the check signing goal celebration at some point this season? I hope not. That would give the anti-DeRo movement some strength.
Right now, the anti-DeRo movement is quiet. Actually, it’s non-existent. While I’ll undoubtedly proclaim to be the founder of the movement if things do go wrong in the DCU-DeRo partnership, I’m not even sure I’m a member of it at this moment. In fact, I know I’m not. De Rosario did things for this team last year that we’ve never seen done before. But will he continue to do that? And how long will we want him in D.C. if he doesn’t?
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I gotta say, I hate you for convincing me with this side of the argument
Well written piece
"I wear tinted visor not to trick other players, but so hot girls in stands don't see me looking at them" - Alex Ovechkin
It's a possibility, yes
But way down the line. I gotta imagine a stadium deal makes it easier to keep DeRo. I’m way more concerned about the team relocating than I am about DeRosario staying contented.
Relo > De Ro
"without any other consistent goal scorers"
pontius and najar are pretty consistent scorers for midfielders
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jan 31, 2012 1:59 PM EST reply actions
"...for midfielders"
We love being able to expect 12 or more goals out of our wingers (and that’s at the lower end of the spectrum, frankly…Najar should probably manage to improve on his 5 goals), but those goals supplement our attack. We’re not going to get very far if, say, Pontius scores 9 goals and that makes him our leading scorer.
Olsen has made it clear that we’re going to be an attack-first team, which means we’re probably not going to finish in the top 5 for fewest goals conceded. That means to win games, we have to be scoring goals. Barring some sort of freakishly balanced attack where everyone in the front 5 scores 7 or 8 goals and some defender scores 5 or 6 and we have multiple 3-5 goal scorers on the bench, we need someone in our attack to score 13 or more goals.
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
by ChestRockwell on Jan 31, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think DeRo will score more than 10 goals next season
if I had to guess exactly I would guess 13. But I guess the whole point of this exercise is what if DeRo declines significantly and doesn’t do that.
I wish the Quakes had just 1 winger like Pontius or Najar last season. Our wingers scored like a combined 4 goals last season.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jan 31, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
Chavez should be a big improvement
I’m not sure he’ll score enough goals – he’s hardly a clinical finisher – but he should cause enough trouble for defenses with his speed and dribbling that Wondo has even more chances to shoot than he did last year.
That doesn’t really cure the Quakes being over-reliant on one player, but at least he’ll be getting more service this way.
It’s been kind of odd seeing San Jose pursue wingers known for their speed rather than their crossing on a team that has Lenhart and Gordon, neither of whom is very good at finishing with their feet. It seems like Doyle and Yallop aren’t assembling a team as a unit; they just seem to be saying “We were too slow, so add speed” and hoping it somehow coalesces into a functional group.
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
by ChestRockwell on Jan 31, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting observation
You do make an interesting point about what SJ is doing — but, to be fair, Yallop and Doyle know the game better than anyone at this site.
I should hope so
But when was the last time Yallop and Doyle were in charge of a good team? It’s been quite a while, brief 2010 hot streak notwithstanding. They may be smarter than us lowly internet addicts, but it’s been a long time since they were also better than their MLS peers at putting together a group designed to win games.
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
by ChestRockwell on Feb 1, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
yeah I'm not too high on the pure speed guys they got aside from chavez
Garza was a poor draft pick despite his impressive speed in my opinion and Salinas sucks in my opinion he is only useful as a burner off the bench in the last 10 minutes of a game where you are down a goal.
Chavez on the other hand has talent and ball skills so I am really looking forward to slotting him in at starting RM and seeing what he can do. We still have no left mid unless Spurs miraculously agree to loan Simon Dawkins back to us.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Feb 1, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
This is a clear sign
…that the preseason is dragging on too long. Just another month or so — c’mon, you can make it.
+1
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TFC and Canada fans have complicated problems with De Ro
I’m not saying they’re wrong, but their issues have a lot to do with the fact that both TFC and Canada consistently let them down, and De Ro is a star player for both sides. From where I sit, the failings for both have virtually everything to do with poor defending, inconsistent goalkeeping (Greg Sutton and Kenny Stamatopolous combined to collect 23 caps in their careers, despite both being USL-caliber players…very curious about how Onstad was ever left out behind those mugs). Blaming De Ro or any individual for a team’s failure is the same kind of mentality that sees the NFL refer to a quarterback’s win-loss total, as if he goes out there by himself and wins a 1v1 duel with the other QB.
Saying a player hasn’t been a winner because he got stuck playing for the only club to ever approach NYRB’s historic dysfunction is awfully harsh. I’m not sure if MLS has ever had a player capable of turning any TFC squad into a playoff team. Marco Etcheverry? Jaime Moreno? Landon Donovan? I don’t think they’d have made the playoffs on those laughably assembled rosters, or in those disorganized, chaotic off-field conditions.
As for us, we do have to consider the worst-case side of this. I am entirely confident in De Ro holding up physically; he looks fitter than most MLS attackers, regardless of age. That side of things doesn’t worry me in the least. What does worry me is the knowledge that De Ro’s contract hasn’t been resolved. De Ro is like most other big-time attackers: His mental state has plenty to do with his performance.
The good news is that the club has publicly stated over and over that they want De Ro here and are willing to give him a raise to a DP salary. De Ro was mad at TFC previously; this time, it appears he’d have little reason to blame United. If he’s not mad at the team, it stands to reason that he’d be unlikely to give a lower-quality effort.
The bad news is what Stouffer mentioned, with MLS being in the lead on negotiations. I really don’t like the sound of that. I’d love to know if DCU asked MLS to take the lead, or if MLS insisted. The latter seems more believable; I could definitely see MLS trying to lowball De Ro to prevent other longtime MLS vets who have clearly earned DP deals from asking for what they deserve. It’s a slippery slope; give De Ro what he deserves, and you’ll have Shalrie Joseph, Brad Davis, and other highly successful MLS vets demanding the same. For MLS, what’s fair in this case is probably not what they desire.
However, if United chose to allow MLS to take charge here, they will have really screwed the pooch. If this is the scenario, then DC’s front office will have been unforgivably lazy and/or timid in a situation that required being proactive and assertive. I can’t even begin to spell out how disappointed I’d be in the club if this was their call.
That said, there is no logical reason for United to have done that, while MLS pushing their way to the front regardless of what DC wants doesn’t require much of a leap in logic at all.
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
On the bright side
Joseph did get a DP level raise.
by Brendanukkah on Jan 31, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
MLS taking the lead
I believe the latter of your two possibilities is more realistic. Here’s how I picture it going: MLS insisted on taking the lead, and United said “Okay, just don’t eff it up.”
I also believe that Ben Olsen and Kevin Payne won’t let MLS eff it up. If De Rosario continues performing at a high level, and United wholeheartedly wants him here in 2013, Olsen and Payne will make it happen. You think the league wants an angry Benny showing up at HQ in New York one day? Nah. MLS can play hardball all it wants this year. But I’d like to believe that when all the chips are down, if DeRo is about to walk, United will step in.
Managing Editor for BlackAndRedUnited.com. Weekly Columnist for SB Nation D.C..
by Martin Shatzer on Jan 31, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
I hadn't read that. Very odd, I think....
I wonder how many times MLS has stepped in to negotiate a contract renewal. It would be interesting to know if this came from MLS or DCU. If it’s the latter, it’s a shocking abdication of what should be the front office’s chief responsibility. If it’s the former, ya gotta ask why. Lack of faith in DCU’s ability to get this done in what the league would say is a responsible way? There’s another possibility that I don’t even want to consider — that this is a sign the franchise’s future is in doubt.
I want to believe it was MLS' initiative.
At the same time, it’s hard to ignore the DCU front office’s propensity to screw the pooch.
Speaking of
Reading this whole LeToux-Nowak thing is pretty incredible. I legitimately feel bad for Union fans, and I wasn’t sure that was possible. I came to United fandom after Nowak left, but… was it like this?
by Brendanukkah on Feb 1, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Nowak is a tool
He screws over his players, no doubt. I think his former players have had a lot to say about him personally, and I don’t know if any of it is positive.
I don't agree with that evaluation
To answer Brendanukkah’s question: I don’t recall anything even remotely similar to the situation Le Toux is outlining.
However – that’s a big however – the 2004-2006 version of United wasn’t anywhere near as interested in developing youngsters and selling them as the Union are today. It’s not palatable, and I feel for their fans, but they shouldn’t be entirely surprised. Between Sakiewicz and Nowak, there have been numerous statements over the past couple years about wanting to sell players and make money.
If you put yourself in the Union’s shoes and note that their top goal appears to be selling players on for a profit, their reaction follows a certain logic. Le Toux would be out of contract after this season. They positioned him to go to Bolton, where he’s probably good enough to earn a transfer. The rumor was that the transfer fee would be around $1 million, 2/3 of which would go to the Union. Le Toux killed the deal, which means (in the Union FO’s mind) Le Toux just cost the club over $600k.
To get back to fischy’s point, I have heard very few complaints from the Nowak era players here. Eskandarian – a guy known for valuing loyalty and being open about those who have disappointed him – works under Nowak today. Earnie Stewart, who probably would have said something if the club was being run poorly, never said a word. Jaime Moreno? Christian Gomez? Ben Olsen? Nick Rimando? No complaints from any of them. Brian Carroll now plays for Nowak. Josh Gros took a job with the Union after he retired.
Other than Freddy Adu, whose complaints about coaches have nothing to do with reality and everything to do with Adu feeling entitled to the career of a star player, the players from those days have never had a problem with Nowak.
The point is that Nowak was in a different situation here, and was also very much a different coach. His tactics and player selections were almost comically rigid, but he also got every last bit of talent out of those players, got them truly fit (lost in all the wonderment at Moreno and Gomez being awesome was that the 2004 United squad was, by a wide margin, MLS’s hardest-working team).
The Nowak we see today is also in a different position in the Union organization (GM/head coach/vice president/probably some other high-power positions).
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
by ChestRockwell on Feb 1, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t speak to Nowak at United nearly as well as most others here, but he’s certainly been polarizing at best with the Union over the past year. Between letting Ruiz go without explanation, the weird hostility during Freddy’s introductory presser, and his tactics/personnel decision for the playoff series, Nowak has been alienating a lot of people in Philly. He’s been painted as a bit of a megalomaniac after the Le Toux business, I’m not sure if importing so many people from his days in D.C. supports that or not.
Was getting Jaime back from New Jersey a top priority for Nowak when he took over here in 2004? If so, his outlook on “heart and soul,” marquee type players, at least, has changed.
Goff's reporting that we're in negotiations with a Rapid Vien striker
Let’s hope he pairs up well with Branko.
Goff retweeted Stouffer
It’s all a bit weird. His wiki page has been the subject of a lot of activity over the last 4 days. “Vandalism” edits, followed by attempts to restore the page. Currently, the box on the right has seriously inflated goal/appearance #s. Not saying that Stouffer has been hoaxed, but it’s a possibility.
Wikipedia vandalism
is like death and taxes.
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Stouffer's a real journalist
Seriously doubt his source to initiate the rumor was wikipedia
Managing Editor for BlackAndRedUnited.com. Weekly Columnist for SB Nation D.C..
by Martin Shatzer on Feb 1, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Think it has to do with the Celtic/Rangers interest
Approaching deadline day, being linked to a UK club means your Wikipedia page becomes a warzone. Considering Salihi was being written about just 3 days ago, I’m more inclined to believe Stouffer has it right and we’re just seeing the downside of crowdsourcing.
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
That was meant as a reply to fischy
I suck at internets.
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
by ChestRockwell on Feb 1, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Anti DeRo movement?
You speak heresy, sir.
Honestly, I wish we would or could just give DeRo the money he wants. I’m not sure what to make of MLS being involved in the negotiations other than I wish they weren’t. DeRo has surely earned a 2 yr contract at lower end DP money, right? I don’t think it’s that much of a gamble that DeRo will continue to produce, so 2 yrs (possibly 3) at $600K-$700K seems reasonable to me. The league is full of stupider contracts. Yeah, stupider is a word. Plus, I’m thinking a happy DeRo is a very dangerous DeRo for the rest of the league, and great for us. MLS/DCU better not screw this up!
As an aside, I’ve always been sympathetic toward DeRo with regard to his contract frustrations. Perhaps, he didn’t always handle it the right way, but I’d be upset too if I were in his shoes. Simply looking at it as an employee-employer relationship, it really sucks when someone else is getting paid a good bit more than you and they don’t contribute near as much as you. And DeRo is a legit hall of famer, if the league had such a thing.
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