D.C. United's International Hall of Shame
by fischy on Dec 13, 2011 2:46 PM EST
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PrintAllsopp, Boskovic, Brasesco, Castillo, Carvallo, Gallardo, Habarugira, Hernandez, Martinez, N'Galula, Niell, N'Silu, Pena, Peralta, Varela.
Hardly a Hall of Fame, but this is my stab at providing a comprehensive list of foreign signings by the D.C. United front office since they last tasted any measure of success in MLS. Four years without a playoff spot, and you can point to the names on this list as the main reason why.
Is there a pattern we can find here? Absolutely. One overarching pattern that can be seen by breaking these players out into 2 categories.
First -- Gallardo, Allsopp, Pena, Martinez and Varela fall into one category -- players who carved out decent careers for themselves as international journeymen at various levels of club play. None of them were high achievers, though. They represent efforts by the front office to find established players they hoped might produce better in MLS than they had recently in more competitive leagues. Also, these players seemed pretty fragile. Perhaps, this was due in part to their ages, but maybe the team didn't really do the homework on their physical condition. Either that, or the team was too willing to gamble because these players came much cheaper than better and healthier players. Also, none of these players had much interest in sticking around. Were they ever excited about coming to MLS, or did their experience with D.C. United chill any enthusiasm they might have had?
Second -- Brasesco, Castillo, Carvallo, Habarugira, Hernandez, N'Galula, Niell, N'Silu, and, Peralta represent a very different group of players, but all have something in common. These are guys who were not even playing at the top level of leagues in the country where DC United found them. Either they were with second-division teams, or they were riding the bench. In a few cases. they were from second-division clubs and still not getting regular playing time.
Gonzalo Peralta and Jose Carvallo were the ultimate examples of a troubling path. These guys were handed to D.C. United because family members wanted them in D.C. and lobbied the team to sign them. Floribert N'Galula was a once bright star in the Manchester United universe -- when he was fifteen. In the four years since, his star had completely faded and he wasn't even wanted at Anderlecht. The others were guys that were "discovered" by United while toiling for lesser teams south of the border. They were players that weren't highly coveted anywhere, but the United front office believed these players could succeed at the MLS level. Even the teams that owned these players were all too willing to let them go. The DCU management team seems to believe they are smarter than everyone else and able to find gems when the players' own coaches saw guys that weren't living up to their hopes for them.
In recruiting foreign players, D.C. United seems too willing to scour the benches of Latin American sides or lower-rung teams in lower divisions in lesser European leagues-- seeking bargains in unrealized talent or faded journeymen. A motley assortment of also-rans, never was and never will be players.
I haven't even discussed Branko Boskovic, who could easily be classified among this bunch -- a middling talent in a lesser league, who United brought in because he came more cheaply than more deserving DPs. I still have hopes for Boskovic, but if he doesn't deliver this year, he would go down as the worst signing of them all.
Since they lost out on Juan Sebastian Veron, they've flailed to find any internationals who came to camp in shape and were able to contribute to the ultimate success of the team. The reason is obvious. They haven't aimed high enough in any case. Marcelo Gallardo was the only effort at finding a real talent, but really this was another case of a player who never lived up to his potential anywhere. The team is trying to find players who they hope will be able to succeed in MLS even if they weren't having success with their foreign club. These are players hoping to relaunch their careers by getting playing time in a less competitive league.
Until and unless the team is willing to go after players who are genuinely coveted by even their current team, players who have enjoyed real club success and are looking for another challenge, they will go nowhere fast. Even an old star who is trying to extend his career would be a huge improvement over this cast of players who weren't enjoying any real success (and often weren't even getting playing time) with their recent clubs.
Despite what they think, the front office are not the smartest, best judges of talent in the room. They are not going to find diamonds or gold in dry veins. They've got to start looking where everyone else is looking. There's a reason why the other teams are going after good players at top teams in Honduras, Costa Rica, etc. L.A. showed there's also good talent to be found chafing to play at top clubs in Brazil, but Brazilians are an exception because of there is no dearth of talent there. Luciano Emilio is a prime example of this -- but he didn't wind up on D.C.'s radar until he dominated in the Honduran league.
Yes, D.C. found an amazing talent in the Argentina second division when they plucked Christian Gomez., but that seems now like a one-in-a-million success that is not likely to be repeated (not to mention that Gomito had success before that with Independiente, one of Argentina's top clubs). Trying to find the next Gomito toiling away at a lower level, or wasting away on a bench somewhere -- this is not a high percentage way to build a winning team.
When I read that Olsen has come back from a trip to Europe and found some good prospects, I fear more players like Ange N'Silu.
D.C. United has struggled in recent years in part because they've traded away draft picks or selected players who left for Europe. That isn't going to get better in the near future -- they only have one pick in the upcoming Superdraft, and only a second round pick in the Supplemental draft. It's the same deal in 2013, as they've traded away their second round Superdraft pick, and their next pick, too (right now, that's a 3rd round Superdraft pick, but I suspect there won't be a third round, so this will be converted to a first-round pick in the Supplemental).
What makes these trades look so much worse is that United have virtually nothing to show for them -- they gave away last year's 2nd rounder for Stephen King; the 2012 second rounder for Jed Zayner and a Supplemental pick that was used for Blake Brettschneider; the 2013 2nd round pick for Fred, and the 2013 3rd round pick for Robbie Russell, who is not likely to still be playing in 2013.
Without these draft picks, United are already starting at a handicap. Academy players hold promise for the future, but the team can't count on finding players like Bill Hamid and Andy Najar, so ready to compete on the MLS level, even at such a young age. Even with 2 years of starting at the University of Maryland, Ethan White was overmatched in the MLS, playing mainly because the team had no other options.
Since United can't count on a deep stream of young American talent to step in and replenish the ranks, the guys in the front office have to do MUCH better with their international recruiting, To do that, they have to employ a different strategy -- to get proven talents who still have a little gas left in the tank and a still-burning fire in the belly. The team has not signed players like that in the past four years, and that is why the team has missed the playoffs in each of those years.
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Hope Springs Eternal
Just as I hope the team will be able to find a solution to the stadium dilemma, I still have hope that the front office can learn from their mistakes and make better decisions — be less willing to part with their draft picks and do a better job of making sure they can sign/keep the players they pick, and, especially, to find and sing better foreign talent. To learn from mistakes, though, requires identifying and admitting the problem. I;ve treid to do my part in identifying the problems – the rest is up to the DC United front office.
Thanks for writing
I largely agree – The reason United keeps missing the playoffs is because they’ve fallen far behind the best teams in the league at identifying and signing international talent.
But I think it might be important to distinguish between the signings in the Soehn/Onalfo years, and the Olsen year. Olsen was very intentionally cautious in 2011. His only acquisitions were players that he already knew. The lone international signing – Brasesco – was even someone who the team had had in camp previously. Olsen hasn’t blindly signed guys because their mothers told him their sons were good, like Soehn did.
I think we’ll see a similarly cautious approach from Olsen this offseason, but with a slightly larger output. I’m predicting that we’ll see maybe three international signings, and they’ll all be guys that United has scouted closely to ensure that they will fit a certain role on the team.
Managing Editor for BlackAndRedUnited.com. Weekly Columnist for SB Nation D.C..
As usual: Agree strongly on some things, not so much on others
First, I enjoyed this piece, fischy. It’s nice to see someone else willing to put out like 1500 words on United when we’re not even playing.
On to the piece itself:
Putting Gallardo – a star at clubs like River Plate, PSG, and a starter for years with Argentina – in with Allsopp and Varela seems pretty harsh to me. I’m not saying signing him was a success, or even a good idea; Gallardo was signed because United went all in for Juan Sebastian Veron (which would have been a superb signing given his impact with Estudiantes in the 18 months that followed), and when Veron backed out, the club couldn’t resist pursuing another big name rather than being more prudent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Martinez was also a good signing in theory, but coming from Serie A, he was used to a certain level and style of coaching. I have heard more than one second-hand story (I know, hearsay, but believable hearsay) from guys that were on the 2008 team that Martinez rather quickly figured out that Soehn was not experienced or a great tactician, and quickly lost respect for him. Once that happened, he more or less began doing whatever he wanted, which does bear out if you recall his erratic performances in the latter half of that season. You might be on to something about him being unimpressed on these shores, but there are signs pointing to that being simply another problem with having a bad head coach.
The rest of the first group are all guys that other MLS clubs go sign; sometimes you get it right, sometimes you don’t. Our tendency to pick the easily injured guy is worrying, but the idea of signing European journeymen is actually rather standard in MLS.
Your 2nd group were, for the most part, young guys that we rolled the dice on. Half of them (Brasesco, Castillo, Hernandez, Niell, and Peralta) were brought in to start; the others were all basically just youngsters we gambled with. I have no problem with that last bunch; the problem is that we should at least occasionally have a hit in there somewhere. The players brought in to start, on the other hand, were all terrible moves.
On their backgrounds, though, I have less of an issue. Christian Gomez didn’t come to DC as a star; Arsenal de Sarandi was a 2nd division club at the time Gomez was signed here if I’m not mistaken. That’s life as an MLS club. Even LA and NYRB are having to find guys from unimpressive clubs. It’s not like NY found Joel Lindpere playing in La Liga; he was at Tromso in Norway and playing for the Estonian national team. It’s not about ignoring obscure clubs; it’s about actually finding guys there that are good enough for MLS and – just as vital – that can adapt to the league in terms of style of play, culture, and travel.
To say all of that group was unwanted in CONCACAF or lower-end CONMEBOL leagues is untrue in a lot of cases. Just as an example, Castillo was one of several players that had just impressed for El Salvador (whose games against the US and Mexico were close) in the Hexagonal; if you can play well there, you should be good enough for MLS. His club in Mexico had turned down offers from the top division to keep hold of him (that’s why he was only here on loan).
His failure here was down to an inability to adapt to physical play and what appeared to be a lack of interest. Your point about judging players beyond their soccer attributes stands out here, but you can hardly call Castillo a guy that was on the CONCACAF scrap heap at that time.
I agree with you that we don’t appear to be pursuing big-time players, but we all know that goes back to the stadium situation. As many times as Dave Kasper and Kevin Payne have been involved with bad signings, I can’t really come down on them for not pursuing guys we just can’t afford. The collapse of the Poplar Point deal reaches into every portion of the club, and that includes McFarlane’s decision to get out, which means less money to spend on the Verons of the world. It sucks, but the issue there really isn’t a GM/scouting issue.
I fully agree that we should do better at scouting the stronger CONCACAF players. I have been saying for a long, long time now that MLS should do everything possible to become the (Mexico excluded) CONCACAF all-star league. Mexican clubs don’t often pursue CONCACAF players – for every Felipe Baloy, there’s 20 Argentines – so United’s only real competition for this pool of players should be the other MLS clubs and maybe clubs like Olimpia or Saprissa (and Saprissa doesn’t even use foreign players, so they don’t really count). It kills me to watch CCL games and see at least one MLS-worthy player in every single game, and meanwhile our best Honduran player happens to have fallen into our laps. There’s no doubt that this club must do better in Central America and the Caribbean.
I also agree that we should be trying to cultivate better relationships in South America. The Galaxy have what appears to be their pick of the best under 23 players at Sao Paulo, and FC Dallas used to have the same thing going at Atletico Paranaense. Philadelphia, meanwhile, made a brilliant move in giving former MLS player and one-time agent Diego Gutierrez a job; it’s no mistake that MLS began getting better Colombian players the moment Gutierrez retired and made himself the top conduit to MLS for that part of the world. Meanwhile, whoever it is we know in Argentina hasn’t helped us in years. In short, we need better friends.
If it were Kasper doing the European scouting, I’d share your fear of another N’Silu. However, the moves since Olsen has been head coach have shown a better understanding of what a player must be like on and off the field to make it in MLS. Benny has given us no reason to be worried in terms of scouting abroad.
On the draft, you are off on a couple of figures. We only have 1 2012 Superdraft pick (#7 overall), but in the Supplemental we have 3 picks (#26, #45, and #64, or one in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds).
I’d also say it’s harsh to say we got “virtually nothing” for those trades. The 2011 2nd rounder we gave up for King was more or less made up for by trading Carey Talley for a pick in the same round (which became Chris Korb), and I’d say King is better than the large majority of the players taken in that round (half of them are out of MLS already, and another 25% are at the bottom of whatever depth chart they’re on). Giving up a 2012 2nd rounder for Zayner – who, without his knee problems, is an average-or-better starting right back – and Brettschneider is good business as well. I have no problem with those trades, especially once they’re put in context.
Russell being on his last legs is news to me. The guy looked plenty fit at RSL, a team that demands a lot from outside backs. If he’s done after the 2012 season, I would be utterly shocked. Trading a supplemental pick for a player like him, even if he only plays 2 more years (can’t go with you on the one year idea, even in this hypothetical), is again a good piece of business on a team that is extraordinarily young. At a certain point, more youngsters are not what you need.
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
Wherein I explain myself....
Gallardp — Definitely a pretty big star within the RIver Plate set-up, though he was second-rate material as far as the national program went. PSG might have had big hopes for him, but he he only tallied twice, and played in only 22 games. He was watching a lot of games from the bench when he was signed by DC. I thought it was a decent recovery after the Veron debacle, and if it were the only example of a signing that didn’t pan out, I would be cool with it. Actually, if you look at results, Allsopp was a more successful signing, and Varela showed some skill in his brief time with the team. My point is simply if you’re going to try and score with guys in Europe, ya need to aim higher than the team has been doing. Instead of aiming higher, they’ve aimed ever lower since Gallardo. When you aim to uncover some diamond that no one else seems to see, you’re not giong to have a success rate. Gomez, as I noted was an exception (yes, he was picked from Argentina’s second division) — an exception it would be foolish to think is easily repeated.
On the draft picks — having three picks in teh Supplemental draft is nothing to crow about. IT’s the rare Supplemental pick that even makes an MLS roster. Picking at #26 makes it highly unlikely that DCU will get anything out of that draft, so I expect only one rookie (the lone Srperdraft pick) to make any impact with the club. I confess I had my years mixed up. I do expect Russell to give us a couple of years. I’m not critical of those trades individually so much as I’m noting that the FO is leaving the cupboard almost bare when it comes to draft picks. You can deal a pick every couple of years, but dealing 2 picks every year really makes it tough. The Zayner trade looked pretty good until his injuries, but without him, we’re left with Brettschneider. Was he — a 4th round pick — worth a 2nd rounder? I’m not even sure that’s the question. It’s the totality of these deals, especially the Perkins and Fred deals, losing picks for guys who aren’t even with the team now, that looks bad.
You make excellent points about the pipelines that other teams seemed to have established. Here’s hoping the Olsen regime can do a better job of following those examples than Soehn seemed to have done — but, honestly, I’m not sure that Tommy was to blame. I think he’s done a far better job of international recruiting with Vancouver than DCU has done in many a year..
I think we've had this Gallardo debate before
I do agree that Varela was actually a pretty decent looking player. The issue I had with that signing, aside from him being 34, was that it was already clear that right midfield was one of the only positions that didn’t need an improvement from abroad. It seemed like such a random signing, even with the fact that Najar’s best position was still being debated in some quarters (for the record, I think Olsen has it right).
As far as the draft goes, I think we’ve seen too many Supplemental success stories and too may Superdraft flops to be able to think of those late picks as useless. I agree that we aren’t going to keep all of the players we pick next month, but I think 2 guys that stick (most likely 1 2012 contributor and 1 guy that has lots of potential but mostly sees reserve games). Given the strength of our academy set-up and the number of DCU academy players who are doing fairly well in the college ranks, I’m not as worried about lack of picks. We can’t go around thinking about ignoring the draft – the academy is not a guarantee of constant players who will become starters – but we’re also not as draft-reliant as other MLS teams either.
I blame Soehn in part for the guys we ended up with because as coach, he should have been more firm and more specific about what he needed from Kasper. The stuff we see in the press indicates that Olsen goes to Kasper with specific things he needs in a player, whereas Soehn – who seems less demanding of others to me and more likely to lean too far in a compromise – probably had vague ideas and would OK whatever Kasper came back with. I realize that requires some leaps to tie what we do know together with what we don’t as far as front office dynamics, but that’s the tone I’m getting from the quotes from the involved parties.
Soehn has come up with some good players; Camilo in particular is very impressive considering his total lack of pedigree. However, he also signed Jarju as a DP, and also decided to make an oft-injured player (DeMerit) the key player for the Whitecaps back four. I also think it was an easier job to assemble the Vancouver team, since Soehn had a full year to scout and negotiate with no distractions, as opposed to doing all that while having to run a team that is also in season. There’s a reason we keep seeing MLS expansion teams sign players like Montero, Hassli, and Chara while most other MLS teams can’t find a way to make those deals. It’s not just being smarter or having more money; it’s about having the time to make it happen.
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
by ChestRockwell on Dec 17, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Great write up
I agree with what Schatzer said above about his cautious approach last year. I disagree with him about this being more of the same this year. While I don’t think he’ll make a ton of signings, I do think this year will show a lot more than last year now that the team has more of an identity than it did in the past and he can go find the players that fit that. If they’re not available, I don’t see him singing for the sake of signing though, which is comforting (if true, of course).
"I wear tinted visor not to trick other players, but so hot girls in stands don't see me looking at them" - Alex Ovechkin
I agree with the broad sentiment
if not the details, which ChestRockwell has already picked at. The last several years have been generally atrocious for talent acquisition everywhere outside of the draft and local development pipelines.
Fiscal constraints or no, there is good talent out there we can afford, talent that ought to be excited to play in MLS. I don’t think there is a need to stop searching for diamonds in the rough, so to speak, but given the corps of young talent we already have, I don’t think we should be turning our noses up at established guys who can still play. That said, both the DeRo trade and the Russell signing suggest that the FO aren’t restricting themselves to developmental projects; but of course whether they are properly in the market for equivalent players outside of MLS is another matter entirely.
Whether Benny can do any better than his predecessors in this is going to be key for how long he holds this job.
Ditto...kinda...
I need to say first that the article is a little skewed. By design, it is a recap of missteps. It obviously omits alot of great international players that did work-albeit temporarily. Emilio and Fred for instance and remember that when we picked up 99 he was a second-squad dude in England. I won’t go into the foreign players who did well, but I think there is something important being overlooked here.
Youth will be a huge part of the team this year. Look at the 11 protected players this year. All of those important players and most have only 1-2 years in the league. We have 2 goalies on that list; and they ARE both worthy starters. The rest are a good enough that we should have a solid team in March ready to go. All the new signees they get-whoever they are-need to be good enough as back-ups and should contend to start. The only position I think we can really use help (and where I hope the team puts some money down) is on a striker with a nose for the net and real toughness (our own Luke Rodgers but hopefully not a jerk).
I also agree with Chest Rockwell that we MLS should be spending more time scouting CCL teams, but lets be honest-we don’t have the $$$ to sign their best either and alot of those guys prefer to stay close to home anyway.
by Eric David Ruenes on Dec 14, 2011 7:51 PM EST reply actions
Disagree on pursuing the top CCL players
LA just proved the point. Sarvas was as impressive as any player on a club from outside Mexico and MLS, and the Galaxy signed him up at a deal he found satisfactory wage-wise without giving themselves a cap headache.
MLS teams might not be able or willing to pay transfer fees within CONCACAF, and that’s fine. The thing to do is find players who are out of contract, or get long-term loans (see: Marvin Chavez). It takes some effort – especially in terms of checking the player’s mentality when it comes to travel and coping with more physical play – but it’s not often that teams luck into quality.
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
by ChestRockwell on Dec 17, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
I did not omit anything. That's the point
Emilio and Fred came into the fold before 2008, which is what I used as my starting point. I tried to name every single internatinoal signing since the end of hte 2007 season. I didn’t include MLS players who may have had foreign nationality — so Fred’s return, and Francis Doe among others did not count. IHowever, I tresearched this and tried to put together a comprehensive list of foreign acquisitions over the last four years.If I left anyone out, it’s only becaue my source material (mostly Wikipedia and my own memory), might have been missing someone.
Why four years? Because the team has missed the playoffs in the last four years. I tried to break it down and understand what was different about the last four years, besides the fact that they won fewer games. It’s true that Emilio signed a month after Soehn became the head coach, but unlike Chest, I’m not throwing all this at Soehn’s feet. I think something changed radically in the front office’s approach after the late-season collapse and early playoff exit in 2007. I think they changed their recruiting approach — for the worse.
As for the $$$ to sign the best CCL players — you’re probably right..at least with respect to the very best. If you believe the stuff on the internet, United tried to sign Zelaya this past summer, but was significantly outbid by a Russian team. In past years, United has tried to sign a few other Central Americans. like Osman Chavez and Palacios, but didn’t have the scratch to compete with Euro teams. Where was teh effort, though, to go after teh next cut of players? Plenty of excellent Central Americans have come into the league over those four years — DPs like Saborio, but also less expensive players who would come under teh salary cap — no out-of-pocket expense for the ownership. Ditto for South American players — How does Seattle come up with Montero, Rosales, Fernandez, etc., and DC United brings in only Brasesco last year, and a bunch of over-the-hill journeymen the year before? Can’t say it’s money because Mnotero and Rosales were salary-cap players, not DPs.
Is Chest right that United’s scouting is ferkochte?. Or, is ti more a philosophy that has United aiming too low with their foreign recruiting? Maybe it’s simply a lack of imagination. or maybe it’s a lack of effort.
Chavez and Palacios were not guys that got away
Chavez came here on trial and impressed enough to get an offer, but not an offer that he felt he was worth. Did we lowball him? We’ll never know, but having seen him with Honduras, I have my doubts. I think he was likely asking for too much, and he wasn’t a talent that we needed to overpay for.
Chavez is now in the Polish league, where he is doing well (won the league, Best XI), but we’re hardly talking about a great league. Judging from guys like Tomasz Frankowski who came straight to MLS from that league, Chavez is probably not facing a stern challenge.
Jerry Palacios plays in China now, along with a handful of other Hondurans. I’m not sure we missed out on much with Palacios, and the Chinese clubs are willing to offer up a salary that would be wasted money in MLS. No big loss in my book.
Zelaya might have done well here (or not…he’s not much bigger than Niell), but the Russian club (Alania Vladikavkaz) made a bigger offer than is probably feasible for anyone in MLS. Again, it’s one I shrug off; Zelaya is a better player than Palacios or Chavez, but also has a bigger risk in MLS because of his size.
Walter Martinez, in my book, is one that got away. He’s now playing in China as well, but I think we could have had him for a not-unreasonable salary in MLS.
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
by ChestRockwell on Dec 17, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
additional international players since 2008
Dan Stratford, Louis Crayton
Not that it really changes anything. Although I can still feel my heart jumping into my throat because Crayton is dribbling out to midfield……he was exciting.
People should really review the rosters for the last several years. It’s really amazing to see the turnover. 12 GKs in the last 4 years alone.
We won an Open Cup with Louis Crayton
I can’t believe that wasn’t enough of a credential for Seattle to try and land him as Keller’s replacement.
by Brendanukkah on Dec 15, 2011 7:57 AM EST up reply actions
Crayton, yes. Stratford, no.
Stratford was a draft pick, just as much as Dev McTavish, and from the same school. Notwithstanding his passport, I can’t count him as an international signing any more than Ngwenya or Najar. Crayton, however should be on the list. My bad there.
Yeah you’re right here. Even if he was an international roster player, Stratford was acquired via the draft, so he should not count in this discussion.
Managing Editor for BlackAndRedUnited.com. Weekly Columnist for SB Nation D.C..
by Martin Shatzer on Dec 15, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
Here I go again
Here I go again.
How come some teams — expansion teams like Vancouver and Montreal — are out there signing players from top leagues, like Rivas and Lee Young-Pyo? How come a team that finished at or near the top over the last couple of years and the team that seems to be making the fastest climb up the ladder are signing quality Latin American talent? Examples: LA signs Brazilian Marcelo Sarvas (Alajuense’s captain), while Philly signs the best young striker in the Alajuense and Costa Rican set-ups, Josue Martinez and is now expected to sign top Panamanian midfielder Gabriel Gomez.
While I’m most troubled by DC’s no-show on the international market, this do-nothing approach is showing up on all areas of roster moves — including sitting out every single lottery this year and sitting out the Re-Entry draft, when even the champs found four players who could help.
Think on these questions: How come four of the five best teams are in the lottery later today for Nguyen, while the one team that has sat out each of this year’s lotteries is sitting this one out? What does DC United know that these winning and up and coming sides don’t? Why has United sat out every one of the lotteries? The team wasn’t very good or very deep — a fact confirmed by the team’s record and the decision to release fully one-third of the roster after the season. Are you telling me they couldn’t have found a better player and better value in one of those lotteries — getting a player who now sits on the roster of a better team?
Why does it seem that United is doing nothing to make the team better except for the occasional trade for another MLS player? Has United fallen that far behind the other teams in scouting? Are they virtually paralyzed, unable to make moves for or decisions on a wide-world of players?
I’m not kidding here. If you look at the moves they’ve made in the last year — there are rally only five or six significant moves: The signing of Davies, who was handed to United on a platter because they were at the top of the allocation list, there was the trade for McCarty, which seemed too good to pass up (care to bet which team initiated the talks?), there was the swapping of goalies with Portland, which seemed to fall into DC’s lap because they had Cronin the year before on an emergency basis, there was the De Rosario trade, which really was too good to pass up and a chance to get the one MLS player the team had pursued for years, there was the da Luz trade which was essentially free for DC because they weren’t going to use that international slot and probably happened only because NYRB must have asked for that slot and wondered what DCU wanted in return; and, finally, the trade for Robbie Russell, which I’m guessing only came about because Russell probably sought the trade.
Seriously — what do the other front offices do that the DC United front office doesn’t – besides all those long lunches downtown that Payne and Kasper must be taking? All I can think is that the team has such a minimal scouting budget that they don’t even know enough about any of the available players to make independent moves. The only players they’re getting are the ones they’ve seen play United or seen on TV a lot.
On those trades
You’re trying to put a negative gloss on the team’s strongest category of roster moves. The team approached Davies and recruited him to a trial with the team knowing that they had the first slot on the allocation list. My understanding is that United actually initiated all (or nearly all) of those trades. It’s been reported that Olsen honed in on McCarty as soon as the unprotected lists were announced – I’m guessing United went to Portland with that trade proposal. The team was also keen on DeRo since last offseason, when they tried in vain to work something out with Toronto. Whoever initiated the da Luz trade, United certainly won it – giving away a few months of an international slot we weren’t using, you’re damn right we got him basically for free. Why is that bad? Robbie Russell wasn’t going to be resigned by RSL, who is tight against the salary cap, so United made sure they were the team that was going to get his services. I don’t see anything to complain about in any of those moves. True, the team’s international scouting has been lacking, but it doesn’t follow that their domestic moves have similarly sucked.
Your criticism on the lotteries, though, is well taken. My only guess is that the front office believes at least one of three things: 1. Lee Nguyen would not be a good fit into the DCU locker room (he’s got a bit of a diva reputation), 2. Lee isn’t good enough to justify whatever salary he’s worked out with the league, and/or 3. better players in the current/former USMNT youth pool will be “coming home” to MLS this year and the team doesn’t want to burn it’s lottery ticket for the next 12 months. They made the same calculation last year, and they arguably got it wrong.
I think the big thing on roster-building has been caution and prudence in player acquisition since Olsen took over. This is purely speculation on my part, but my guess is that the team has lost some of its contacts in Latin America – either cutting them off after bad scouting/advice, which fischy outlined in the post, or some other way – and so they haven’t been getting the connects they had in the past. One of the goals of the scouting trips everybody in the FO seems to be taking this month has to be to establish new connections for future player acquisition.
As for the reentry draft, the overarching theme of the offseason is to make the team better, not just to fill out the roster. Nobody available in the reentry draft would have given us that. LA went buck wild on the second phase because they need reasonably priced backups and warm bodies to hold down roster spots. We don’t really have that luxury – we need top line starting talent right now. Hopefully that’s what we’ll get from abroad, but the reentry draft wasn’t ever going to be a major part of the team’s plans this winter.
In any event, I much prefer the slow-and-steady roster build, with the team doing its due diligence on any potential acquisitions, when the alternative is the 2008 method – blow it up, and replace it all in one fell swoop. Remember Gallardo, los hermanos Gonzalo, Franc O’Neill, and Carvallo? So far, we’ve blown up a good chunk of the roster; I’d much rather the team spread its net wide and take their time in restocking, personally. That said, if we get to the end of January, and the roster is still half-bare, I’ll start thinking about panicking, too.
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On Davies, trades and the lotteries
On Davies — I’m pretty sure you’re wrong how that went down. Davies agent, Lyle Yorks approached MLS and DCU about bringing Davies here. DCU had been going after Johnson, but we’re happy to move on as that wasn’t bearing fruit. The trial was arranged for Davies only to assure the FO that he could play, to make the loan happen. Smart, but also typical of a conservative risk-averse FO. I’m not criticizing that pick-up, but I don’t give the FO lots of credit for thinking out of the box, or even being especially aggressive. He was brought to them on a silver platter.
On the trades — they weren’t the worst deals, but I think they just fit in to a theme of DC only going after players they know very well — and know well because they’ve seen them up close, not from what we’d call “scouting”. I do think they were taken advantage of in both Perkins trades, and the Wallace-McCarty swap ended up favoring Portland — but I’m not criticizing the content of the trades. Just showing how they fit in a larger pattern — a lack of imagination and a lack of effort. Russell is the prime example. Yeah, they made the deal, so they get some credit, but I’m sure it was in part because Russell either took less to play in DC or indicated he would retire and leave RSL nothing if the deal wasn’t done. They make the deals that present themselves, rather than creating them.
On the lotteries, I’m at a loss. You could make individual cases — Bingham was a luxury they couldn’t afford after his GFA deal expired, etc…., but that shows a lack of imagination. If those players weren’t in the team’s long-range vision, they could have taken them and dealt them later to another team — at no cost to United…not even cap room.
On the Nguyen lottery, I’m not sure this would rule them out of future lotteries. I think this might still fit in the 2011 lotteries series (with Vancouver having the worst odds), which would reset in January. Perhaps the team doesn’t want to use cap room on Nguyen — a reasonable call, but how do we explain that teams with less flexibility do, and how do we explain that DCU has decided to sit out every lottery this year? Either they know more about these players than the other teams do, or they know even less — too little to even take a chance on these guys.
I think you and I disagree on some key points.
- Player evaluation in lotteries: I don’t think it’s necessarily a matter of knowing more or knowing less. Reasonable people can differ on the value of a player and his utility to a particular team. There’s no one right answer on entering the lotteries. (As for the Nguyen lottery, I’ve seen conflicting accounts, but I think either it’s a rolling 12-month calendar during which you can’t enter lotteries, or it’s already reset (shortly after MLS Cup).
- On not taking players the team’s not familiar with: What’s wrong with that, on it’s own? The problem is in not doing enough scouting. We’ve seen what happens when you take a flier on somebody you don’t know enough about, and it’s frequently not pretty. I think the FO has learned to be risk-averse after getting burned one too many times. (Would you rather go with the impulsive RBNY/TFC model?) That said, the team almost certainly needs to do more/better scouting abroad. We’re in agreement on that much.
- On Davies, I may have been mistaken, but that was my recollection.
- On the trades: I agree we got fleeced on getting Perkins from Philly, but they had us over a barrel. On the Perkins-for-Cronin trade, it didn’t work out in hindsight, but I don’t think it was a bad idea at the time; we cleared a whole lot of cap room by dealing a guy who wasn’t in out plans – that’s certainly not a loss. With the McCarty trade, ask Portland fans how far Rodney Wallace’s game has progressed this year (at mid-season, he led the league in missed passes), and even though Dax didn’t work out here (more owing to our tactics and formation than anything else), we parlayed him into DeRo, who was certainly worth it. More broadly, you might have a case that the FO lacks imagination, but I disagree that they’re not putting in the effort – making a series of trades that generally favors you isn’t as automatic as you make it seem, as many fans in the league, particularly up north, can attest.
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I owe DC an apology on Nguyen
Vancouver won the lottery, suggesting that it’s already reset. So, DCU may have made a respectable decision to wait and see who might come later.
As for the trades — like I said I’m not criticizing the content of the trades. I’m looking at a team that is relying on that mechanism to find the players they need, and seems to have a very limited approach overall. If the only trades they make are the ones that are handed to them, or for players they’ve had in the fold before (Perkins, Fred, DeRo, Cronin, etc.), it suggests the FO isn’t working very hard to seek out new prospects.
I’m glad, at least that you agree the team needs to do better scouting. The question is hwy they’ve done so badly. Do they even have a scouting budget beyond paying for the three or four scouting trips? There’s no way a team can see many players that way — and finding a few that would agree to come to DC is hard, if you’re not casting a wide net. As Chest wrote, they’ve got to have a network of contacts that are working the ground in country for the team. I don’t know if they still have that. When Portland lands a kid like El Trencito, whose dad played for the Metrostars, and United has nothing, it makes me wonder. It’s not as if the Timbers had to look hard to find the kid — eh should’ve been on every team’s radar.
On DPs and Scouting
I don’t think DC is in the market for a young DP, and that’s okay. We’ve already got one (Boskovic), and we’re about to ink another one to a longer-term deal (DeRo). Knowing the team’s financial situation, asking for another DP, even a young one, might be asking for a bit much.
Like I said, my guess is the team severed some of the connections it had south of the border, either because of bad results (bad advice is frequently worse than no advice) or for other reasons. I have to think there’s more than just watching games and practices happening on these scouting trips – especially for Payne and Olsen. I have to think they’re actively talking with players they like and their representatives, as well as any contacts they do have in the various countries/regions they’re visiting, not just taking in a game and sending an email when they get back to the States. Don’t assume nothing will happen just because nothing’s happened yet. Portland landed themselves a young DP, sure, but that doesn’t mean he’d be a stud in DC or work in Benny’s system. The fact that other teams are signing players now doesn’t mean that those are the best players or the only good players. It’s a big sea out there – it’s better to hold out for the right fish rather than keep up with the Paulsons and sign somebody just to say you signed somebody (See Gallardo, Marcelo, in re: Veron, Juan S.).
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Note on the young DP rule
You still have to buy that 3rd DP slot, so with Boskovic in the fold and De Ro pretty much requiring a DP deal (as much for the public show of being counted amongst the Designated Players as it is about money), United would have to pay the league $250,000 on top of whatever transfer fee was involved with signing such a player.
In other words, it’s highly unlikely until Chang finds more investors.
Writer on SBN's DC United blog Black and Red United | @ChestRockwell14 | KEEP UNITED IN DC
by ChestRockwell on Dec 17, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
young dp?
…heck og a stretch to call Bosko a young DP…the dude is 31…
by Eric David Ruenes on Dec 17, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, the lottery reset
The MLS calendar year ends with MLS Cup. The 2012 MLS season essentially started with the expansion draft.
Managing Editor for BlackAndRedUnited.com. Weekly Columnist for SB Nation D.C..
by Martin Shatzer on Dec 15, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
Shorter AMT
It’s too soon within this offseason to draw the conclusions you are drawing.
Having said that,
" if we get to the end of January, and the roster is still half-bare, I’ll start thinking about panicking, too."
is also true for most of us, I believe. It is possible that the FO is simply in failure mode right now, but I’d like to give at least Benny some benefit of the doubt here.
Thanks
That’s about the length I meant to go before the length got away from me. ;)
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Timbers get a DP
Timbers have signed one of the stars of Colombia’s U20 side, under the “Young DP” rule, that cuts the cap hit to 120k, just a tick above what Tino made for United. He joins Fabian Castillo and probably Josue Martinez as Young DPs (there may be others I’m not thinking of?).
Still no news of foreign signings by United. Yeah, it’s early, but other teams aren’t sitting on their hands. Presumably, they’re grabbing the better prospects, which means United, by waiting, is left to pick from a lesser pool.
It may be that the FO isn’t looking at the Young DP rule as a bonus — that the lower cap hit also means the team is responsible for more of the player’s salary. It’s possible this s a huge barrier to United picking up this kind of talent. If so, this points up how desperate the team’s financial situation is right now. If so, ownership with deeper pockets and a more favorable lease cannot wait because it’s impacting the quality of the team.
One way in which we seem to have differing perspectives
“Presumably, they’re grabbing the better prospects”
I don’t think this is a valid inference. The pool is so large and widespread here, and team needs vary so much, that I don’t find other teams signing guys this week to be a threatening phenomenon.
by Stunned Duck on Dec 15, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
I hope you're right.
Even if the talent is still out there to be had, I think the jury is still out on whether DCU can and will find talent out there this offseason. It is my fervent hope that I’m proven wrong.
There is the rub
The FO does need to re-prove itself in this. Many other teams are doing quite well in the international market. If we can’t, or won’t, then it’s a big handicap.
by Stunned Duck on Dec 15, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
My fear is they get a rep
If players decide that the franchise is poison because of a perception the FO is inept, it will become self-fulfilling.
Valid fear
But it hasn’t stopped international players from signing with New England or in Jersey (hey-o!).
Only half-joking there, but more seriously, I think things like letting Julius James go when he wanted out and otherwise treating players with respect and like human beings (rather than mongrel laborers) goes a long way with players, here and abroad. The FO generally does a decent job on the decency front – getting Najar and Hamid higher salaries after their solid rookie years, bringing Najar’s brother up from Honduras when he was facing kidnapping threats, and looking to Pay the Man (DeRo) are some other examples. New England is the opposite historically – what they did to prevent Parkhurst and Twellman from going abroad must have hurt their goodwill in player circles.
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Good points
The FO has generally done a good job standing by their players — though letting Simms and Tino go (who were both very local), without even making offers, doesn’t quite fit that pattern you describe.
Interesting about the Najars — hadn’t heard that. Did they bring both of Andy’s younger brothers up? Both are in the Academy.
True story on Simms and Tino
And that’s an excellent point.
Because Clyde and I share similar living preferences (i.e. love living in the city and biking as transportation whenever possible), I feel especially bad about the fact that effing New England picked him up. It would take days to bike from Boston to Foxboro, so he’s going to be spending a lot more time in the car on a daily basis than he’s been used to for the last several years. I certainly wouldn’t be happy about that change.
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Najar feature in Washingtonian
http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/sports/18735.html
It wasn’t so much kidnapping threats as an attempted kidnapping, actually. The Washingtonian feature discusses it – apparently in Central America, it’s not all that uncommon for people to kidnap the relatives of celebrities/athletes and hold them for ransom.
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As if on cue...
Here’s Travis Clark for the league/team websites: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/12/15/scouting-done-dc-coaches-ready-bolster-roster
While Ashton didn’t give any hints as to the players’ identities or exactly how many are currently being targeted, he said that there’s a "50-50" chance that at least one could be completed and announced before the end of 2011.
It’s not quite as much or as fast as I know a lot of people wanted, but it’s (hopefully) something in the next couple weeks, and potentially a lot more after that. Let’s just hope they’re good quality moves.
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Good to see some confidence
Of course, I’m sure we’ve read the same things every year. It’s encouraging to hear they’re in talks, but not 100% encouraging to read that Ashton thinks it’s 50/50 that they get one guy signed in the next 2 weeks. As I’ve written before, the team really needs to sign at least 3 foreign players this offseason. If they don’t bring in any MLS free agents, they’ll need more than 3 internationals just to fill out the roster.
While they might want to leave one or two roster slots open for a big summer signing and maybe an allocation or lottery player, they have some flexibility there with Bosko’s contract up in July. They’re at 18 now, and can expect one rookie to make the team. They might get lucky in the Supplemental, but it’s not something to count on. Ashton says there’s one or two free agents they might want — so, let’s say they get lucky and get one of the two. That’s 20 spots. Maybe 21, with a homegrown.
They gotta get to 27 — really at least 28, but let’s say they anticipate adding at least two players during the season, so I’ll make the magic number at 27. That would be 6 other players needed. This is why it’s so important to sign foreign talent. Much more so than ever before. I think they have to come in with 4 or 5 international signings this offseason. That’s a minimum, still leaving room for several mid-season acquisitions.
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